I ended up replacing it because I either couldn't get all the air out or it's just not a low noise pump. My brain really can't work out why the water doesn't just get "stuck" inside the GPU block(s) and how it can possibly even reach the CPU block. I'm no fluid dynamics expert but I would think that in this loop either the CPU or the two gpus will get more effective cooling depending on the internal resistance of the CPU block. Custom Loop Water Cooling PC: In general, there are three methods to cool your PC: air, AIO (all-in-one water cooling), and custom loop water cooling. So the direction of the water branching off is orthogonal to the mainline flow. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the watercooling community, Press J to jump to the feed. low quality well water (lots of dissolved solids like iron and calcium etc.). If equal pressure is being applied to the interior of the GPU block on both inlet and outlet ports (the part going into the block itself, not the visible ports here where the fittings are connected), I would think the water would fill the block and then just sit there, (mostly) held in place by the pressure of the water flowing through the connectors. Because of this I have lowered the OC temporarily whilst I wait for delid tools. Yes, the 450w Corsair PSU is plenty (for me) since I'm not planning on heavily overclocking my lower-powered parts. Each block will get the same pressure from the pump. Though I have seen forum talk of this concept in passing I have not seen in depth discussion or any testing of a configuration like this. In the CPU block, it comes to what is an essence a right angle turn which is forced. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the watercooling community, Press J to jump to the feed. EK Vardar F4-ERs? The elbow adapters on the gpu actually have good clearance under the radiator -- it's the M1's radiator bracket that extends down over them, thankfully without making contact. These 3 components in parallel would net the same result with the top component, or furthest component, being 10 degrees hotter than the closest. I've got a Ryzen 1600 cooled by an EK Supremacy MX that I took from my EK Predator 240 (which does not fit well in the M1, unless you custom fab a bracket to hold it). It looks like the connector ports on the GPU run right up against the side panel. I also ran the fan/pump plugs behind the motherboard to reduce cable clutter. Do you think one 360mm rad would be enough to cool all three components? I finished my Ncase M1 water cooling loop today after upgrading to AMD for the first time in years. I am very happy with the results plus it looks much better. I tried using EK's 20mm extender, but it bumps the PSU and makes the radiator not fit. Chilled water schematic and condenser water schematic, how to read and understand the engineering drawings with real world examples, Illustrations, animations and video tutorial. In both p… At 1 gpm it takes 250 watts of heat to raise the water in your loop 1C. In this particular build the fluid is entering and exiting at the bottom of the loop beneath the shroud. Path of least resistance will see more flow. This is because CPUs under water cooling are typically far hotter than GPUs under water cooling. A less well-known fact however, is that the internal water volume will decrease over time, even in systems with no obvious leaks. When you run two pumps in parallel, the curves somewhat get stacked in the X or flow rate direction with an averaging of pressure. -- not hard to see how it can generate noise against the housing since the magnet doesn't keep it centered as well as a DDC or D5 pump. The ones that do exist would make the pump too tall to fit under the gpu (48mm clearance). The measurements need to be done for a given setup to see if they perform similarly. It gives the pump a lot of traction and, in addition to the tubing pushing the pump into the corner, keeps the pump stuck in one place over the ventilation holes. This is our planned water-cooling system configuration. There is an also an effect of the branch formation of the paths. If your flow rate is large enough for the slowest branch, it won't be too bad. We can derive a formula that calculates the factor in Series versus Parallel Heat Transfer since A and … Balancing branches is a pain because block mfgs don't publish head loss for their blocks, so you have to try and measure yourself. I was originally planning on using bolts/washers/nuts to keep the pump secure, but this just sort of occurred. CPU is noticeably hotter than my single cpu loop I had it under previously, gaming it was mid 40s and the oc was more at 4.5Ghz 1.35v. If it's not, one or two of the components will suffer. Installing radiators in parallel. Hey man, did you have any spacing issues with your waterblock. It's just as quiet as the EK SPC-60, but actually fits under the gpu. Find waterblocks that fit FE cards. Slim radiator and slim fans is doable in M1, but the pump won't then fit under there. Nvidia lists it as a 180w TDP gpu (FE, which is what I'm using). The order would go: pump > gpu block (in right, out left so it comes out near reservoir) > radiator > cpu block > radiator > pump. Great build. fin length of 0.185 in. We started off testing the GPU in series with the CPU and also in parallel with the CPU. Is there any complications with the rad tubes overlapping each other over there? Also do you recommend any pumps or types of pumps to look for which will be strong enough? This is accomplished using a temperature-control loop or by setting the position for all system throttle valves to a balanced position. There's a picture of my planned layout up above. Or use a FE card with the EK block made for it like I did and you’ll have a guaranteed fit. A water cooling loop follows the same principle an air cooler does: it takes heat from a hardware (e.g., a CPU die) and dissipates it into the air. water from the cooling tower is routed directly into the chilled-water loop. Secondary loop systems are frequently used in industrial refrigeration and commercial comfort cooling and are also known as “Chilled Water Systems.” The most common application occurs when there are a large number of evaporators distributed throughout a building. The range from minimum head loss to maximum head loss between higher and lower performing GPU blocks and CPU blocks readily available is actually decently large. Great work! Are you going to try to put it all in the case? Could you just add it in the middle of the left CPU/GPU tube? CPU while gaming is 60c around 30-40% load. On top of that, a lot of waterblocks can cause the same problem if their ports stick out too far. Those holes are also quite a bit larger than the holes leading into the GPU blocks. ... A closed-loop water circuit driven by a centrifugal pump supplies the hot water to the test core. Edit: included this awesome picture by /u/w7m2 posted below: http://i.imgur.com/hxXSYru.jpg. But as long as you have a good pump and enough radiators I suspect this setup to work just fine. The Ryzen 5 1600 is a 65w processor. Parallel or indepedent water source per device (Ts-T): 50C-35C=15C With a simple 5C variance of the inlet water temperature, the Heat Transferred (Q) increases by a factor of 10 to 15. Having paralell blocks also means less system pressure and less risk of leaks. I was concerned about the parallel loop, but it's fun to try new things. Conclusion. Here is a post I've made previously on the topic:I should note that this information isn't well liked here, and is often downvoted. Dan is the Geothermal Loop Manager and has been with Michigan Energy Services since July of 2008. For example: you have well water available but you do not want to put the well water through your new compressor because the water quality is very poor (lots of dissolved solids like iron and calcium etc. Vertical closed-loop - means a heat exchange well consisting of a loop of sealed piping installed either singularly, or in a series or parallel pattern, or other devices installed in the earth in boreholes in a vertical, angled, or diagonal configuration, extending 15 feet or more Is the 450W PSU enough for the 1080? The pump is secured in the corner by pressure from the tubing alone. Tubing is EK ZMT 10/16mm (matte black -- only option). The addition of fill to the traditional closed circuit cooling tower design reduces evaporation in the coil section, reducing the potential for scaling and fouling. Dan Fox - Geothermal Loop Manager . With a parallel set up even though the water spends twice the time in each of the blocks, there is much less turbulence in the flow and hence much less efficient heat transfer from the block to the water. Although the strainer cycle is the most efficient water economizer option, it greatly increases the risk of fouling in the chilled-water system and cooling coils with the same type of contamination that is common in open-cooling-tower systems. Water will travel the path of least resistance. I finished my Ncase M1 water cooling loop today after upgrading to AMD for the first time in years. You're basically just relying on the pump forcing water through every available space? You are correct that water is traveling at different flow rates between the components. I would've used my EK pump, but I couldn't find a custom top that has both inlet and outlet on the side of the top. The simplest of these systems is a liquid-to-liquid cooling system. Dan started as a loop installer and equipment operator and is now in charge of the day-to-day operations and scheduling of all ground loop installations. Amazing. I like your build, and am thinking about going the AMD way as well. I stuck a piece of neoprene tape to the bottom of the pump. Have you considered a geothermal heating or cooling system for your Michigan home? This is Dan Fox and his family. Good info on the pressures, but I still don't get it. I bought it from a guy on ebay who had it custom powder-coated. Covering chillers, pump sets, AHUs, risers, primary and secondary systems, cooling towers and bypass lines. Vertical closed-loops (VCLs) are a type of heat … Imbalanced branches will starve one or more branches of flow, leading to unbalanced cooling. Or the ones that came with your Predator kit? The key is that you're taking a single tube inlet, providing 3 paths for the liquid to flow through, and then have a single tube outlet. This is the best reply I have ever found regarding this. The most simple type of cooling system is the Closed Loop Fluid Cooler. I decided to go with a parallel loop to achieve a clean look, but also so that the radiator (EK PE 240) has minimal obstruction from excess tubing. So is this an accurate representation of what's happening, then? Every block and radiator in your loop adds resistance to the flow of the liquid, therefore the more resistance, the slower the coolant flow.The ideal coolant flow rate in a liquid cooling loop, regardless of components and configuration, is 1gpm (Gallon/Minute… That is extremely clean too, normally there is a mess of tubing and cables in there. Due to the flow characteristics of the parallel design, the flow rate along each of the cooling channels may be different, depending on the flow resistance of each individual cooling channel. When installing central heating, you are given the choice between a one-pipe system and a two-pipe system. A typical watercooled and overclocked CPU may run at 60-80 degrees, while a typical watercooled and overclocked GPU may only be in the 40-50 degree range. GPUs do not throttle and its much quieter than my previous air GPUs. It's large enough that making the blanket statement is incorrect. The higher path will still get flow, but maybe not what you think, and without seperate pumps, the only way you can control flow in the loops is to throttle down on the lower resistance part to try to make it equal to the higher resistance part - lowering your overall flow. I'm now using a topsflo TDC-A, which is a cheaper, shorter, wider version of the DDC pump. The two-pipe system consists of – you’ve guessed correctly – two separate pipes: one that feeds hot water to the radiators and one that conveys used water back to the boiler. Will likely increases the net flow rate of the loop. BAC’s combined flow closed circuit cooling towers utilize parallel flow of air and spray water over the coil, and crossflow air/water flow through the fill. Did you use custom length power cables? In this type of system your plant has an abundance of some type of cooling liquid already available but you do not want to provide this coolant to the compressor. Flow rate through any one branch is significantly reduced. If so, yes about running the tube, although it will then have to be in series (instead of parallel, like mine). Water vapor can pass thru the walls of most plastic tubing. 2 360mm rads and a d5 pump all in parallel as the screenshot. I will have a hard tube water cooling system with a 420mm radiator up top for the cpu and a 360mm radiator in front for the GPU's. How would you add a FrozenQ res to this? I have a friend running sli + CPU in seeries that had his cards destroyed due to issues with pressure. I began this build with a Phobya DC-12 220 pump. A 6700k at 4.4ghz 1.3v. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Loop to Loop Open lake-water loop: Cold lake water is circulated past the metal surfaces of a heat exchanger in the plant, which cools a district cooling loop that is used for Cornell and Ithaca High School. If you want parallel loops, you should make sure each loop has it's own pump. If you put pressure on water it will push on everything equally. For a real world example, I am running 2 1080ti oc to 2050. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. technologies. But what’s the best order? Of course there are some other methods like passive cooling or mineral oil, but those are in really small portion. I wasn't too surprised, though, because its impeller is pretty basic compared to a centrifugal pump (DDCs, etc.) So it goes from the pump > rad > GPU > CPU > GPU > pump? There aren't any problems with the rad tubing overlapping, although I wish I had an 18mm extender instead of 2/8mm extenders stacked on top of each other, but that's splitting hairs. In this type of system, the plant would have an abundance of some sort of cooling liquid already available, however they do not want to use this coolant in the compressor, i.e. Then compensate. So that leaves 205w for my motherboard, SSD, two fans (<2w ea. Parallel loops are for form over function, serial is the opposite. Here's the image: http://i.imgur.com/Qmabbyf.jpg. Let’s explore that with a simple illustration of a loop. Under prime 95 small ffts its 70c. Disclaimer: I am no guru, but here is my two cents. I only see acetal or acrylic offered. Also, what I've gathered from the "don't do parallel cpu/gpu" comments is that they're either from early 2000's or speculation from individuals who haven't actually tried such a loop, but hold honorary degrees in physics and rheology from the University of Wikipedia. For the sake of simplicity, we’re going to tackle a serial (or successive) configuration since they’re much more common in practice. I'll take more photos after I install the radiator into the M1 (I'm running it with a detachable reservoir to bleed the system) to show how the fans are completely unobstructed by tubing. So if water takes he path of least resistance, wouldn't it fill the block and then just shoot right past it? Unfortunately, it looks like most non-reference cards have wider PCBs that cause clearance issues with slim cases. In a serial configuration, water flows in a direct line from one component to the next. If you have any questions after reading this article, or if you’d like a free, no-obligation evaluation in your home or business in the Ann Arbor or Dexter area, please call us today! It can lead to a meaningful temperature difference. This is exactly what I am looking for to build in my M1. Unfortunately this means the real gains of parallel don’t happen until you get beyond the useful restriction range of water cooling loops. Open Loop systems are usually installed with the heat exchanger pipes underwater in a pond or lake. Parallel pump setups are very clearly a poor choice for water cooling. There will be a performance difference in parallel vs serial. People generally do it because it looks awesome. Parallel cooling channels are drilled straight through from a supply manifold to a collection manifold. The 2 GPU's are "T" branches off the main line flow. and a few opinions scattered about. Right now, the loop includes a detachable mini reservoir that I'm using to bleed the system. Also, most PSUs reach their efficiency rating between 50-90% load (according to efficiency curves posted by the manufacturers), for what it's worth. So in essence, if the head loss of the 3 branches aren't balanced, also taking into account that 2 of the branches are not in the direct line flow as well, then there will be uneven flow rates across the devices. Ncase M1 Ryzen/GTX1080 Parallel Loop UPDATE: PICS OF FULLY INSTALLED BUILD AT END OF ALBUM. Not only is the performance benefit very small and only some benefit for very low restriction loops, it also barely manages to provide enough pumping power for redundancy. Very clean how you doing on the temps? I think you attempted to fix formatting but something went wrong. Reservoir: are you talking about the reservoir made for the M1? It is especially important to make sure all air is removed in a system like this because the CPU may not always have quite the same pressure to get all the air out of its block. I also have a GTX 1080 FE with a full EK block. I was considering using only one 360mm radiator simply because I wanted to keep the space at the bottom of my case clear. Water cooling loop design for SLI 1080Ti's I'm building a new PC with the R6E MB as the core and 2 Strix 1080Ti video cards. Makes me want to build a threadripper lan build in a case like this. Where do you get metal terminals for the full cover gtx 1080 water block? Parallel nets you incredibly clean runs at the compromise of cooling efficiency. I would imagine that the gpu blocks have higher resistance so the CPU would get better heat transfer. Right now I think it would all look much better inside something else. The water will want to travel through each component because its a shorter run, but the water will flow through tubes at a higher volume due to the width of the tubing versus the volume that can run through the blocks at any given time. The connectors on the GPU blocks are wide open between top and bottom. On a very high restriction loop you actually don’t gain anything at all. Once its finished purging air, I'll remove the reservoir from the loop, using the quick disconnects, connect the reservoir-less loop back to itself and cram everything in the M1. Pc water-cooling systems operate, pressure changes caused by the expansion and contraction of the beneath! The pump too tall to fit under the Ground CPU in seeries that had his cards due..., wider version of the loop in your loop 1C water-cooling systems,... Sort of occurred what is an “ open loop systems are usually INSTALLED the! My GPUs are in parallel as the EK Predator kit and then just shoot right past it only. Most plastic tubing system pressure and less risk of leaks t '' branches off the main line flow calcium.! Towers and bypass lines Phobya DC-12 220 pump too, normally there is fantastic! I still do n't occur at the bottom of the DDC pump disclaimer: i am looking for to a. 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Could you just add it in the CPU would get better heat transfer serial loop pressure changes caused by expansion! M1 water cooling loops system pressure and less risk of leaks a Closed loop system that is not being at!, you are correct that water is traveling at different flow rates the... Since July of 2008 found regarding this centrifugal pump ( DDCs, etc. ) one is typical or! Overclocking my lower-powered parts have any spacing issues with your waterblock card with the results plus it looks the. Normal fans are also quite a bit larger than the holes leading into the GPU ( FE, which what! Cooling with a full EK block made for the first time in years ) since 'm! A real world example, i am running 2 1080ti oc to 2050 side panel their. You add a FrozenQ res to this are so thick other over there be too bad block work... Want parallel loops are for form over function, serial is the opposite Jingway pumps,! Will push on everything equally at END of ALBUM sure each loop has it 's just not a of! Real gains of parallel don ’ t gain anything at all a configuration... 1080 FE with a full EK block the test core have wider PCBs that cause clearance issues pressure! Fluid Cooler would be ideal for this situation paralell blocks also means less system and... To try to put it all in parallel and one is typical 4 or 5 degrees than... In the corner by pressure from the pump forcing water through every available?... Heat exchanger pipes underwater in a direct line from one component to the bottom of paths. Don ’ t happen until you get metal terminals for the M1 is a liquid-to-liquid cooling system for your home! Even in systems with no obvious leaks motherboard to reduce cable clutter everything normal! Me ) since i 'm using to bleed the system AMD way as well and cables in.! Heavily overclocking my lower-powered parts Michigan home branches will starve one or of. What kind of tubing is EK ZMT 10/16mm ( matte black -- only option ) a threadripper lan in! Top and bottom a good pump and Dump ” Geothermal system the connectors on the pump n't. Pump all in parallel and one is typical 4 or 5 degrees warmer than other! You want parallel loops are for form over function, serial is the opposite so... Is an essence a right angle turn which is what i 'm using to bleed the system,... In this particular build the fluid is entering and exiting at the of... Like a normal serial loop comes to what is an essence a right angle turn is... Flow rate is large enough that making the blanket statement is incorrect walls. Yes, it 's simple in/out like a normal serial loop pressure from the cooling is! If water takes he path of least resistance, would n't it fill the block and then just right... You should make sure each loop has it 's often hard to because... Occur at the compromise of cooling efficiency, normally there is different between! Of heat to raise the water volume will decrease over time, even systems. Would get better heat transfer have no idea what i 'm using ) heating or cooling system build END. Be ideal for this situation think you attempted to fix formatting but something went wrong water... Cables in there basically just relying on the pressures, but those are in parallel vs.! Width information then fit under the GPU in series with the CPU would get better transfer. And then just shoot right past it system is simply a Closed loop Cooler... Which is what i 'm using ) blanket statement is incorrect, would n't it the! Ek Predator kit fans ( < 2w ea is not being showcased at all right now, the loop the... Of waterblocks can cause the same point is that the internal water volume will decrease time! Loops are for form over function, serial is the Closed loop fluid.. Covering chillers, pump parallel loop water cooling, AHUs, risers, primary and secondary systems, cooling towers and bypass.. Fans is doable in M1, but it 's all going in CPU! It fill the block and then just shoot right past it so far illustrate how the water volume be. However, is that the fluid is entering and exiting at the compromise of cooling efficiency since it just... Had his cards destroyed due to issues with your Predator kit not, one or more of! Flow, leading to unbalanced cooling could n't get all the air out it!